were will hardware production stand in the future?

Hardware will never die out because there's some people who are musicians and not mere "beat makers." Musicians buy instruments based upon two things primarily: Their tone and the inspiration / fun factor involved with using them. VST instruments and effects sound good in their own way, but no matter how much you treat that sound it always sounds unappealing to me, at least when compared with hardware. Also, producing music on a computer is boring as hell to me, no matter what controllers I have. Even with a powerful computer and a good audio interface, there's STILL latency when playing keys or hitting pads. This is unacceptable to me and takes me out of the "fantasy world" of creating music.

I guess it really just depends on how much of a tone freak you are, what your musical pursuits are, and how much money you are willing to invest. If you've never used traditional hardware (and don't know what you're missing out on), are a strictly bedroom producer, and don't have much money... then just do everything with a computer. You can get good results. If you have fun while doing it, more power to you. However, many people who are sound connoisseurs won't settle for doing everything in a DAW. Plus, if you ever have plans on performing live, what are you going to do? Stand on stage with a laptop? Sorry, but I'd rather give myself a cinnamon oil enema than watch that. Building up a gear collection is expensive, but it's well worth it IF that is what makes sense for you and your life. I personally find the workflow of using hardware much, much more fun and interesting than working with a computer.

The kind of people who think that there's no point in using hardware are usually the same people who rarely if ever listen to music on analog formats... people who only ever listen to mp3s and streamed internet videos with their shitty earbuds or laptop speakers. I feel sorry for the younger generation, who have never really heard a properly-mastered vinyl record played on a quality sound system. It takes a dinosaur-sized shit on digital audio.
This is biased non sense. It may hold true to you personally but that does not make it fact. This sounds mostly like a way to put down others while bigging up your own personal preferenes.

---------- Post added at 06:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:35 PM ----------

i think hardware production will die out in a couple years when the maschine and mpc ren/studio get more advanced and sampler sound emulation gets better. personally i'm a few hundred from quitting hardware, i'm gonna jump on the maschine as soon as i get the cash. sick of tracking stuff out, such a hassle.
hardware won't die anytime soon. stage performers love workstations for live playing, synth heads still prefer hardware synths over software for the most part, and a few other exceptions. Plus you cannot pirate hardware. I see software potentially slowing down because its gotten stagnant and its more about feature whoring and being the cheapest most powerful thing available than always being the best.
 
I see it changing to a more controller type of thing than stand alone product.
That's where i am at. it will be hardware powered by software and ios devices.

---------- Post added at 07:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:07 PM ----------

It may be a bit biased, but it certainly isn't nonsense. It's fact.
not at all. coming from someone who has owned both hardware and software its really not that different. I could argue that are you a songwriter or are you a tracking engineer? does a musician need to know much in the terms of sound design because most hardware synths do require a slight bit of know how in that regard vs software synths that have an endless amount of presets out there for people to just start making music. The only "fact" that you put out there was that there is often a disconnect when dealing with software and midi controllers but with so many controllers out there that come with their own dedicated software like Maschine or Push the closer we will close that gap too.
 
not at all. coming from someone who has owned both hardware and software its really not that different. I could argue that are you a songwriter or are you a tracking engineer? does a musician need to know much in the terms of sound design because most hardware synths do require a slight bit of know how in that regard vs software synths that have an endless amount of presets out there for people to just start making music. The only "fact" that you put out there was that there is often a disconnect when dealing with software and midi controllers but with so many controllers out there that come with their own dedicated software like Maschine or Push the closer we will close that gap too.

I have experience with all sides of music, from writing to recording. Been doing it for nearly 20 years now. (Wow, has it been that long? I'm getting old.)

I think that people these days almost NEED to know more than just one aspect to their craft, and since DAW's are commonplace now, people have to possess a dash of musician, sound designer, and engineer to get decent results. (Unless they use presets, which is lame.) The same applies for anyone who records at home using hardware. Very rarely are musicians not interested in the recording process as well. Pretty much anyone who plays anything that uses electricity is an audio nerd and a tone freak. This includes guitar players, bass players, etc. A musician doesn't NEED to know much in terms of sound design, but they are extremely closely related, ESPECIALLY for people who use electronic instruments like synthesizers, samplers, etc.

The "facts" that I put out there are these:

1. Dedicated hardware is not going to die out any time soon. (The hardware market is stronger today than it has been in years.)
2. The sound quality of software instruments lacks something special that hardware has in many cases... even digital instruments! (Analog is even more noticeable.)
3. Some people are never going to be happy with using a computer because it doesn't jive with their workflow and it isn't as inspirational for them.
4. Some people simply don't like computers! (I just added this one, but it was implicit.)
5. You can make good music 'in the box' or 'out of the box.' All that matters is finding that inspiration and being good at what you do. One method isn't better than the other -- that is purely subjective. You already know where I stand!
6. Buying gear takes money, and a lot of people are cheapskates and just want the cheapest option possible. This is a fact, and this is the primary reason why so many people are software-based. If it wasn't for software piracy, I'd be willing to wager that half (or more) of the people on this forum wouldn't even be here.
7. Watching someone perform with a laptop is boring. This is subjective, but what would you rather see? A DJ cutting up wax on some 1200's or a DJ with a laptop and some MIDI controller? Would you rather see some live techno from some guy banging out rhythms with drum machines and synthesizers or watch someone play with a controller and a laptop? (I'm sure that most people would go with option #1)
8. Most people these days only listen to music either in mp3 format or, even worse, via streaming files on the internet, like YouTube videos. They have no idea what good sound is. All they care about is that it's loud and has lots of bass.


Also, you need to consider the fact that buying gear is an investment... especially stuff that is no longer in production. It's only going to increase in value as time goes on. You can buy something like a MPC 60 now and sell it in a year from now easily for what you paid for it, if not more. That's like getting a year's worth of fun for free, or even making money off of it. When you buy software, its value is basically nothing the moment you buy it because you can't resell it, and when it comes to stuff like controllers, who knows if they are even going to be supported in say... 5 years time? 10 years? There's a damn good chance that they will be next to useless unless you never update your software / OS / computer. Plus, finding replacement parts for hardware or getting them repaired is a hell of a lot more likely than with controllers...

Like I said, it really just comes down to what you feel works best for your style and budget.
 
I have experience with all sides of music, from writing to recording. Been doing it for nearly 20 years now. (Wow, has it been that long? I'm getting old.)

I think that people these days almost NEED to know more than just one aspect to their craft, and since DAW's are commonplace now, people have to possess a dash of musician, sound designer, and engineer to get decent results. (Unless they use presets, which is lame.) The same applies for anyone who records at home using hardware. Very rarely are musicians not interested in the recording process as well. Pretty much anyone who plays anything that uses electricity is an audio nerd and a tone freak. This includes guitar players, bass players, etc. A musician doesn't NEED to know much in terms of sound design, but they are extremely closely related, ESPECIALLY for people who use electronic instruments like synthesizers, samplers, etc.

The "facts" that I put out there are these:

1. Dedicated hardware is not going to die out any time soon. (The hardware market is stronger today than it has been in years.)
2. The sound quality of software instruments lacks something special that hardware has in many cases... even digital instruments! (Analog is even more noticeable.)
3. Some people are never going to be happy with using a computer because it doesn't jive with their workflow and it isn't as inspirational for them.
4. Some people simply don't like computers! (I just added this one, but it was implicit.)
5. You can make good music 'in the box' or 'out of the box.' All that matters is finding that inspiration and being good at what you do. One method isn't better than the other -- that is purely subjective. You already know where I stand!
6. Buying gear takes money, and a lot of people are cheapskates and just want the cheapest option possible. This is a fact, and this is the primary reason why so many people are software-based. If it wasn't for software piracy, I'd be willing to wager that half (or more) of the people on this forum wouldn't even be here.
7. Watching someone perform with a laptop is boring. This is subjective, but what would you rather see? A DJ cutting up wax on some 1200's or a DJ with a laptop and some MIDI controller? Would you rather see some live techno from some guy banging out rhythms with drum machines and synthesizers or watch someone play with a controller and a laptop? (I'm sure that most people would go with option #1)
8. Most people these days only listen to music either in mp3 format or, even worse, via streaming files on the internet, like YouTube videos. They have no idea what good sound is. All they care about is that it's loud and has lots of bass.


Also, you need to consider the fact that buying gear is an investment... especially stuff that is no longer in production. It's only going to increase in value as time goes on. You can buy something like a MPC 60 now and sell it in a year from now easily for what you paid for it, if not more. That's like getting a year's worth of fun for free, or even making money off of it. When you buy software, its value is basically nothing the moment you buy it because you can't resell it, and when it comes to stuff like controllers, who knows if they are even going to be supported in say... 5 years time? 10 years? There's a damn good chance that they will be next to useless unless you never update your software / OS / computer. Plus, finding replacement parts for hardware or getting them repaired is a hell of a lot more likely than with controllers...

Like I said, it really just comes down to what you feel works best for your style and budget.
Again extremely one sided. It sounds like you are more into electronic music which is fine. I dig some electronic music myself but most of this website is hip hop based and will pretty much shut down most of the stuff you mentioned. I've never met a musician who is going to make music on whatever instrument is available. When you get into urban music people judge synths especially based purely on the sounds it comes with. While that might be lame to you to many synthesis is lame. That's what sound designers are for. You'll hear it often. Which again comes down to blanket statements like this don't really work because there is an exception to every rule. Also why bring up resell value? Software does not hold resale value everyone knows that. And not all hardware retains its resell value. Tell the guy who bought his Mpc 60 in 1989 that he is still getting all of his money back if he sells today. Not happening. Tell the guy who paid $1000 for his mpc 1000 new in 2004 why he is going to be lucky to get $500 for it now or the Mpc 2000 guy who might get $200 for it now even after he paid $2000 for it 10 years ago. Not all hardware retains value. I have an Akai Miniak I might get $200 for it if I look around but I paid $400 for it.
 
Again extremely one sided. It sounds like you are more into electronic music which is fine. I dig some electronic music myself but most of this website is hip hop based and will pretty much shut down most of the stuff you mentioned. I've never met a musician who is going to make music on whatever instrument is available. When you get into urban music people judge synths especially based purely on the sounds it comes with. While that might be lame to you to many synthesis is lame. That's what sound designers are for. You'll hear it often. Which again comes down to blanket statements like this don't really work because there is an exception to every rule. Also why bring up resell value? Software does not hold resale value everyone knows that. And not all hardware retains its resell value. Tell the guy who bought his Mpc 60 in 1989 that he is still getting all of his money back if he sells today. Not happening. Tell the guy who paid $1000 for his mpc 1000 new in 2004 why he is going to be lucky to get $500 for it now or the Mpc 2000 guy who might get $200 for it now even after he paid $2000 for it 10 years ago. Not all hardware retains value. I have an Akai Miniak I might get $200 for it if I look around but I paid $400 for it.

I don't just make electronic music. In fact, I started off playing bass in a ska/dub band!

You've never met a musician who is going to make music on whatever is available? Then you either don't know many musicians or come from a very different world than me! Some of the best music I've ever heard was made with really cheap / crappy / minimal setups. I used to record for a lot of people and I knew one guy in particular that made the most interesting music with stuff that most people would consider throwing away. I'm talking Radio Shack microphones, bongos found in trash cans, cheap guitars, old digital drum machines, Casio keyboards, random sounds recorded with a portable cassette recorder, vintage home stereo reverb units, lots of multitracking, etc. It's not really what you have, it's how you use it combined with your own artistic vision. Far too many people who are into music these days aren't artists in the deeper sense, I'm afraid. The hip-hop realm in general is a very stale place musically. I'm not saying that every hip-hop producer is stale, but by and large what do we see? Chops from some sampled record played on top of some drums? How many people have you heard say "I wanna make a DJ Premier type beat" or I wanna make a "(insert producer here) type beat" rather than try to develop their own style? Gotta crawl before you can walk, I guess... I understand that a lot of people buy keyboards based upon what sounds they come with stock, but a lot of people don't. Some people aren't satisfied to use presets. I am not too proud to use preset sounds. I've used them plenty of times. However, I find that making my own sounds is fun. I think that MOST people who produce music these days also design their own sounds, or at least modify presets. The notion of a DAW user who only uses preset sounds in softsynths kind of makes my stomach turn, but I can understand a keyboard player going for something like a Fantom or a Triton when they want 'bread and butter' type sounds. Also, I brought up resell value because it's worthy of consideration, at least for me. There's no way to ensure that what one buys new will be a hot item 15-20 years down the road, but there is still a used market for almost anything, even the crappiest gear. You might not get what you paid for something initially, but you'll still get something, which is better than one can expect from buying software. Plus, I almost always buy used gear (the only shit I buy new is socks and underwear basically), so when I do resell a piece of gear, I tend to get my money back or even make a profit... so basically, even though it takes an initial investment to buy something, if I ever decide to sell it in the future it's almost as though I got to use it for free for a certain period of time. Also, it entirely depends on how long you hold on to something... as more time passes, units become more and more rare and their used value continues to climb. One advantage to softsynths, however, is that if you buy one (or "obtain" one, I should say) you can clone it as many times as you want within a project, processor power allowing. Can't do that with a hardware synth, but that's what program changes are for. Anyway, like I've said a few times already, it doesn't really matter what you use to make music with as long as the person using it finds it inspirational and has sufficient artistic vision to do something special with it. In general, I tend to enjoy music made without a computer more because I tend to hear more improvisation and experimentation rather than a formulaic model of lining up blocks on a grid. I guess I'm more attracted to more low-tech ways of doing music... I like hearing room noise picked up by microphones, hiss from a cassette tape, analog distortion / saturation, natural reverbs, fret noise, the sound of a shitty mic'ed up guitar amp playing synthesizer sounds, circuit bent stuff, nature sounds, off-beat drums, wrong notes, psychedelic freakouts, analog echoes, juicy filter sweeps... a human / organic touch, bascially. I know that's just subjective and maybe it's just lingering nostalgia from recording projects that I did in the past, people I knew in the past, or a nerdy infatuation with older technology... but that's how I feel. :)

Anyway!
 
I think hardware will always be around, but software has definitely taken over the forefront more so. One thing that I will continually disagree with as someone who still uses hardware, is that software is the cheaper route. I think software may be a little cheaper, but if you are buying your plug ins at full price, the gap is much narrower.
 
I think hardware will always be around, but software has definitely taken over the forefront more so. One thing that I will continually disagree with as someone who still uses hardware, is that software is the cheaper route. I think software may be a little cheaper, but if you are buying your plug ins at full price, the gap is much narrower.

Software is cheaper in a sense that if you buy DAW. These days it will include its own plugins and practically everything you need to get started. To get the hardware equivalent would be more expensive when you consider all that comes with a software DAW. The is one of the good things about software.
 
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Software is cheaper in a sense that if you buy DAW. These days it will include its own plugins and practically everything you need to get started. To get the hardware equivalent would be more expensive when you consider all that comes with a software DAW. The is one of the good things about software.
The plugs that come with DAWs suck a lot of the time too. They might be usable but how many of them are truly good. I think many people forget the cost of a computer too. To get a computer worthwhile to run many of these plug ins should be taken into consideration. Not at all plug ins require expensive PCs to run but most of the newer ones do.
 
I only paid for my TR-808 once and it works the same way it always has, in fact it's worth more now than my legacy boxed copy of ReBirth and the computer I used to run it on, so what I really hate about software is the constant paying for upgrades and the possibility of paying for a product that is going to be killed off despite all that anti-piracy bullshit software companies bang on about, like yeah, OK I did the right thing by supporting your company instead of trying to save a few bucks and now your like "sorry dude we decided to save a few bucks by not supporting that product you invested in anymore."
 
hardware is going NO WHERE!!! it will continue to be the top of the game thats like saying oh lets stop using pencil and paper to write down an equation because we got calculators now. Sure you could stick to calculators but nothing like that hunch when you know that you did something wrong you can always go back too it. Hardware is for TOP DOGS str8 like that!!
 
The plugs that come with DAWs suck a lot of the time too. They might be usable but how many of them are truly good. I think many people forget the cost of a computer too. To get a computer worthwhile to run many of these plug ins should be taken into consideration. Not at all plug ins require expensive PCs to run but most of the newer ones do.

It's 2013. People under 35 should own a decent computer regardless.

Ableton has nice instruments and effects. If someone understands how it works they can get far without 3rd party software. Reason users tend to swear by what they have. Pro Tools has nice effects plugins but lacks in having a built-in drum sampler. I can't really speak much for Sonar or Cubase (don't use them). But "getting started". Someone just getting started doesn't need to start investing in random 3rd party stuff because in most cases they don't understand them. Someone getting started on strictly hardware would have to buy multiple items to have same abilities (Keyboard workstation, standalone recorder, outboard effects because most that are available on hardware recorder are truly limited).
 
It's 2013. People under 35 should own a decent computer regardless.

Ableton has nice instruments and effects. If someone understands how it works they can get far without 3rd party software. Reason users tend to swear by what they have. Pro Tools has nice effects plugins but lacks in having a built-in drum sampler. I can't really speak much for Sonar or Cubase (don't use them). But "getting started". Someone just getting started doesn't need to start investing in random 3rd party stuff because in most cases they don't understand them. Someone getting started on strictly hardware would have to buy multiple items to have same abilities (Keyboard workstation, standalone recorder, outboard effects because most that are available on hardware recorder are truly limited).

I tend to find hardware presets better out of the box. I have tried the trial versions of kontakt and ableton and thought the sounds weren't for me. I think logic and reason have the best sounds built in but looking around this site, a great majority use fl studio or other popular daw and plug ins of choice. I don't see many buying one saw and using only the built in sounds. I enjoy being able to flip on a motif and just play. I want ton get into software a little more and know the capabilities exist. I still believe each side has their pros and cons.
 
I think hardware will always be around, but software has definitely taken over the forefront more so. One thing that I will continually disagree with as someone who still uses hardware, is that software is the cheaper route. I think software may be a little cheaper, but if you are buying your plug ins at full price, the gap is much narrower.

Consider this: You want to build a small project studio that you can record vocals in, have some sampling, some decent sound sources, and whatnot.

With software, this can be had on the cheap. We'll ignore monitoring and microphone solutions because it's going to be identical for both types of rigs.

For about $450, you can cop a decent little PC, add another $100 to it to get a Lexicon or Alesis audio interface, and $199 for a copy of FL Studio Producer edition, and $150-$200 for a decent MIDI controller and you have multi-track audio recording, effects, synths, and sampling.

To build this with all hardware, you'll need something on the order of a Tascam DP-24 24 track digital recorder and mixer which currently runs $800. Next, you'll need a sequencer. Your best bet is a sampling sequencer, which means an MPC or something of the sort. To keep costs down, your best bet is an MPC500 for $600. It still has a MIDI sequencer in it and has the advantage of also having sampling capabilities. A Yamaha MM6 rounds out the setup with a cost of $400.

With hardware, you've almost doubled the cost to get a decent recording rig going with far fewer features.

That said, I miss hardware recording. I've toyed with the idea of setting up a small rig centered around an old Roland VS2480, an ASR-X, and a few of my favorite old-school modules and a keyboard but don't have the space for it.
 
Consider this: You want to build a small project studio that you can record vocals in, have some sampling, some decent sound sources, and whatnot.

With software, this can be had on the cheap. We'll ignore monitoring and microphone solutions because it's going to be identical for both types of rigs.

For about $450, you can cop a decent little PC, add another $100 to it to get a Lexicon or Alesis audio interface, and $199 for a copy of FL Studio Producer edition, and $150-$200 for a decent MIDI controller and you have multi-track audio recording, effects, synths, and sampling.

To build this with all hardware, you'll need something on the order of a Tascam DP-24 24 track digital recorder and mixer which currently runs $800. Next, you'll need a sequencer. Your best bet is a sampling sequencer, which means an MPC or something of the sort. To keep costs down, your best bet is an MPC500 for $600. It still has a MIDI sequencer in it and has the advantage of also having sampling capabilities. A Yamaha MM6 rounds out the setup with a cost of $400.

With hardware, you've almost doubled the cost to get a decent recording rig going with far fewer features.

That said, I miss hardware recording. I've toyed with the idea of setting up a small rig centered around an old Roland VS2480, an ASR-X, and a few of my favorite old-school modules and a keyboard but don't have the space for it.

I See where both sides have advantages and disadvantages. I use hardware still to to this day for sequencing and sounds, but record to a DAW.
 
Hardware will always have a market. Some people hate clicking around, some people don't even use a computer so only use hardware, some people just prefer having a hands-on feeling.
 
Im not going to get too deep with my response but I will say that of course hardware will stil be around as you take this comparison as an example. Even though they are not made any more why do you think some D.J.s still prefer tech 1200s over the many software programs.. sure some use serato but at the same time they like the real feel of the turntable and if you have ever cut up vinyl then you already understand why they still command such a hefty price for the lastl 30 plus years now.Same thing with vintage microphones etc..Question why do you think those SSL boards still cost so much? or why folks still sample wax with all the digital sources availiable...

---------- Post added at 01:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:03 AM ----------

I meant to say with all the CD turntables that have come out why do you think 1200s have retained thier value?..
 
i think one problem with hardware is recent samplers/sequencers (microsampler, roland sps, beat thang, octatrack) have 2 outs which is ridiculous, 8 outs has been around since the ensoniq eps at least. also other features lacking that have been around since the 90s.
 
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