MPC User's Guide to the MV-8000

jahrome

Diamond Member
1. The hard drive is tied to some of the most important functions of the MV. Hard drive failure, corrupted data, or erasing an important file can crash the entire unit. It is more like a PC than a hardware sequencer. It even performs start up and shut down like a PC. Since verything hinges on the hard disk, you should view the hard drive as temporary storage and back up everything on CDRW or your PC.

2. 8 audio tracks. This is a feature that is getting its props. However, most MIDI sequencers, if not all, that have audio tracks are software on computer platforms (Pro Tools, Nuendo, Cubase, Logic, Sonar, etc). These are software based. Audio is recorded to the PCs hard drive. This is extremely efficient and doesn't bogg down the computers RAM. Hard drives today can store more than 200 gigs. The MV-8000 on the other hand stores audio in its RAM, which is maxed at 512 I believe. This RAM is shared by the sequencer, patches, and any samples. A large project can eat up this memory. When it comes to saving such a large project...it can take a very long time to save. In reviewing the unit, I created a projecrt that took 5 minutes to save. I found it far from efficient. I would limit my use of the audio tracks for this reason. I also have to add..one a sample or audio file is stored in RAM, there is no easy way to just delete it like other similar units. You have to go to the project menu and go through an optimize process just to get rid of the sample to free up memory. A simple sample delete key would be nice...just like other samplers that were created from 1988-2002.

3. Being a MIDI crazed maniac..I found the 2 MIDI outputs limiting. I can work around it..but for a unit that is aiming for professional use and claiming to be the center piece of a studio..additional MIDI outputs would be desirable. 4 MIDI outs would be nice ;)

4. It has all the common sync protocols like MMC and MTC, but I would like to have SMPTE as a future option.

5. It has seperate input connections for sampling turntables and also line sources...but you cannot a turntable and a line source to the unit at the same time, the MV will disable the line inputs. If this is the center piece of my studio, I don't want to connect and disconnect cables all the time. I can work around this by using an external mixer but....

6. The LCD screen is small and is very cumbersome with all the functions that are displayed on it. Since it isn't adjustable, I found myself hunched over the unit. You NEED the VGA option with this unit..no question. It should be a standard not an option.

7. Time stretching. Roland products may probably have the best real time stretching of any harware synths.samplers, etc. This is the highlight of this unit. A serious tool for remixers and sample-based producers. But, I have to add that if one spends $2000 on this unit, they would most likely own and use a computer in their studio. Most of the new digital audio progranms have this function as well and is as powerful or better.

8. As a highend unit, I was disappointed that it didn't have ADAT digital ouput option like other workstations in its price class. There is Roland's R-Bus digital protocol and also a converter box for ADAT connection...but I found this Roland's attempt to make more money and keep everything in the family. I don't know of any non-Roland R-bus products.

9. The onboard layout of the MV is very similar to other leading sequencers. But int its attempt to be the last sequencer you will ever need, it has added cunbersome menus and keys that perform the same funtion. There are functions that are so simple that it should take minmal navigation to accomplish yet you have to go to another MENU...project optimize, project save, project save as, project delete, project protect, create new project, project load, project back-up to CD, recover project from CD, project rename...I am all projected out. Everything can be combined to a project load or save. To load a project, it will be in two places..either the hard drive or CDRW..no need for additional menus for that..the reason why hardware sequencers have remained popular because producers like being spontaneous....we have enough of Windows/menus in our lives.

10. The pads are ok. However, if you strike them hard enough, it may trigger sounds on an adjacent pad. Roland added a pad input sensitivity to help you if you have this problem.

11. On-board sounds are not really on-board as in sounds in a sound module. These sounds/patches are stored on the hard drive. Not really a reason to buy jump for joy. Most sequncers today come with sounds on a CD or DVD Rom that can be stored to any medium you like. The sounds are no better or worse than anything I have heard in similar products. However, there is a big support forum intended to help (jump start sales of the MV and related products)users. You can purchase patches/sounds designed for the unit a fair price which is ok. But..most similar units can load just about any commercially available sample CD roms with similar sounds without any or very little tweaking.

12. So when it is all said and done, it really comes down to do you really need the bells and whitles this unit have? Do you mind the waiting time it takes for it to perform certain functions? And best..does it fit your budget.

You may never need 128 tracks and its attempt to add audio tracks (which would only be useful to me if the tracks could be recorded and streamed to/from its hard drive). Cheaper alternatives exist for real-time time stretching such as Acid (which is software based). Nothing new or original in the MIDI sequencer or the layout of the industry standard 16 pressure sensitive grey pads..

But, despite its short comings, I have found it to be a worthy addition (not a replacement) to my gear addiction. Especially since Roland is dedicated (for the time being..where is the MC-909 these days)to promoting this item. If Roland supported the MC-909 sampling groove box better that they are now, I would opt for it instead. It can do many of the similar things plus you can install Roland's SRX chips in it. Only if they mad a MV-8000 with slots ofr the SRX expansion boards...that would be a killer..
 
we should stop this mpc vs mv war before someone gets hert.
Your sayin that you have an mv 8000?
 
Come on, jahrome...this is a "hater" post if I ever saw one. Not like you to do that. :) lol by the way, this again is not out of disrespect...take it with a grain of salt bro. :D

jahrome said:
1. The hard drive is tied to some of the most important functions of the MV. Hard drive failure, corrupted data, or erasing an important file can crash the entire unit. It is more like a PC than a hardware sequencer. It even performs start up and shut down like a PC. Since verything hinges on the hard disk, you should view the hard drive as temporary storage and back up everything on CDRW or your PC.

Well, there is FLash Rom in the unit...This also isn't an mpc...these things rarely if ever crash. The two times I've known people to lose all their data is from user errors, not machine ones. They do not crash. I have frozen mine up ONCE. And I posted it. Actually, I froze it twice, because I repeated the same thing to see if it would freeze again. This was at Version 1.2 and it has never happened since.

Originally posted by jahrome 2. 8 audio tracks. This is a feature that is getting its props. However, most MIDI sequencers, if not all, that have audio tracks are software on computer platforms (Pro Tools, Nuendo, Cubase, Logic, Sonar, etc). These are software based. Audio is recorded to the PCs hard drive. This is extremely efficient and doesn't bogg down the computers RAM. Hard drives today can store more than 200 gigs. The MV-8000 on the other hand stores audio in its RAM, which is maxed at 512 I believe. This RAM is shared by the sequencer, patches, and any samples. A large project can eat up this memory. When it comes to saving such a large project...it can take a very long time to save. In reviewing the unit, I created a projecrt that took 5 minutes to save. I found it far from efficient. I would limit my use of the audio tracks for this reason. I also have to add..one a sample or audio file is stored in RAM, there is no easy way to just delete it like other similar units. You have to go to the project menu and go through an optimize process just to get rid of the sample to free up memory. A simple sample delete key would be nice...just like other samplers that were created from 1988-2002.[/B]

We have three ways to simply delete samples...what are you alking about. One project and 512 MB of Ram is plenty. And mixdown and all that takes place on the disk. So it is not a matter of RAM. Drum and instrument patches only take little of the RAM and leaves plenty of time on the audio tracks...The mpc's you peddle only have 32 MB of RAM...you got to be kidding. And samples ARE either audio phrases or patches...not audio, patches, and samples...That is misleading. And about the five minutes thing, I think you are exaggerating. But nontheless...EVERYTHING on a mpc takes forever. especially processing samples. These functions are almost instant on the MV. And the wait to load up a project (which loads everything exactly how you left it...sounds, samples and all) and shut down are the trade off with all the stop and go and wait DURING your composition that takes place on an mpc.

Originally posted by jahrome 3. Being a MIDI crazed maniac..I found the 2 MIDI outputs limiting. I can work around it..but for a unit that is aiming for professional use and claiming to be the center piece of a studio..additional MIDI outputs would be desirable. 4 MIDI outs would be nice ;)[/B]

Yeah maybe, but you can upgrade to three midi outs plus R-Bus and still come out cheaper than a mpc. And who, that has a lot of gear, doesn't have M Audio midi interfaces...And again, the mpc's you peddle only have two midi outs...

Originally posted by jahrome 4. It has all the common sync protocols like MMC and MTC, but I would like to have SMPTE as a future option.[/B]

It does, it just master's it. And doesn't send it. Though it could in an update.

Originally posted by jahrome 5. It has seperate input connections for sampling turntables and also line sources...but you cannot a turntable and a line source to the unit at the same time, the MV will disable the line inputs. If this is the center piece of my studio, I don't want to connect and disconnect cables all the time. I can work around this by using an external mixer but....[/B]

(The horror, the horror...disconnecting a cable)
But what? Now you are just being lazy. :D

Originally posted by jahrome 6. The LCD screen is small and is very cumbersome with all the functions that are displayed on it. Since it isn't adjustable, I found myself hunched over the unit. You NEED the VGA option with this unit..no question. It should be a standard not an option.[/B]

Again, the lcd is much bigger than most units, is the same as on VS recorders, very good, AND IS BIGGER THAN THE mpc's LCD SCREEN THAT YOU PEDDLE!!! ;) And we HAVE a VGA option...not that it is needed...where is this on mpc's?????

Originally posted by jahrome 7. Time stretching. Roland products may probably have the best real time stretching of any harware synths.samplers, etc. This is the highlight of this unit. A serious tool for remixers and sample-based producers. But, I have to add that if one spends $2000 on this unit, they would most likely own and use a computer in their studio. Most of the new digital audio progranms have this function as well and is as powerful or better.[/B]

Not everyone likes to do everything on a computer...otherwise, why get an mpc? And well, you are right, it is the best and not existant on a mpc.

Originally posted by jahrome 8. As a highend unit, I was disappointed that it didn't have ADAT digital ouput option like other workstations in its price class. There is Roland's R-Bus digital protocol and also a converter box for ADAT connection...but I found this Roland's attempt to make more money and keep everything in the family. I don't know of any non-Roland R-bus products.[/B]

Well, so what? The option can be had with the MV for less than the price of a 4k. Heaven forbid capitalism at work. :) And as a high end unit, a fully expanded mpc2kxl costs about as much as a MV-8000 and can only do a fraction of what the MV can do...Again, these are the ones you peddle. ;) As a daily observer on eBay, I've seen you try and sell a fully stocked used mpc2kxl for over $1700...that is outrageous and I am sure you did not sell it.

Originally posted by jahrome 9. The onboard layout of the MV is very similar to other leading sequencers. But int its attempt to be the last sequencer you will ever need, it has added cunbersome menus and keys that perform the same funtion. There are functions that are so simple that it should take minmal navigation to accomplish yet you have to go to another MENU...project optimize, project save, project save as, project delete, project protect, create new project, project load, project back-up to CD, recover project from CD, project rename...I am all projected out. Everything can be combined to a project load or save. To load a project, it will be in two places..either the hard drive or CDRW..no need for additional menus for that..the reason why hardware sequencers have remained popular because producers like being spontaneous....we have enough of Windows/menus in our lives.[/B]

You are kidding right. There is less menu-gymnastics on these things than on ANY mpc. Period and you know this. I know this and you should know this. All those "project" things are easy and for maitenance purposes. And more concise and organized than ANY mpc. Combursome is using an mpc to get back up to where you left off. And what about all those things do you not understand????? Everything is combined to load or save...the rest is options that aren't existant for convience on other machines. 90% of the functions on a MV are one or two clicks away from the main sequencer screen...usually, the better organized you are with your filing system, the more menu's...like when I look for a patch. This is preferable.

Originally posted by jahrome 10. The pads are ok. However, if you strike them hard enough, it may trigger sounds on an adjacent pad. Roland added a pad input sensitivity to help you if you have this problem.[/B]

That is a lie right there. No triggering of neighboring pads AND NO DOUBLE TRIGGERING OF ONE PAD YOU HIT LIKE ON MPC's... The pads are also better than mpcs because they are firm in the middle and not on the edges...whereas the mpc pads are the opposite. WHich makes different velocities, rolls, and crescendo's and what-not easier on the MV by moving your fingers from the outside to the center of the pad. Makes more sense this way than the other way. The responsiveness is much better and more musical on the MV's pads.

Originally posted by jahrome 11. On-board sounds are not really on-board as in sounds in a sound module. These sounds/patches are stored on the hard drive. Not really a reason to buy jump for joy. Most sequncers today come with sounds on a CD or DVD Rom that can be stored to any medium you like. The sounds are no better or worse than anything I have heard in similar products. However, there is a big support forum intended to help (jump start sales of the MV and related products)users. You can purchase patches/sounds designed for the unit a fair price which is ok. But..most similar units can load just about any commercially available sample CD roms with similar sounds without any or very little tweaking.[/B]

Huh? It comes with sample disks and a little over 300 MB or keymapped patches stored on its 40 gig hard drive. It gives you something to use right out the box until you get sounds from Roland, third party or compatible format disks...And now you can get mpc's with "onboard sounds" in their advertisments...and nfew if any of which are keymapped instruments...lol

And you don't need to tweak anything unless you wish. you are making a comment about quality of sounds that is arbitrary at best. They are as good as ANY rompler patch... And I am talking about the stock ones.

Your opinion on "sound" is skeptical at best. Someone with that many romplers and wants to buy a (one) synthesizer???

You are reaching with this one, before the mpc4k came out, nwe mpc2kxl's came with a CD-R of samples that you COULDN'T EVEN USE until you got a SCSI CD-Rom drive for your mpc...(not included as it should've been). To even bring up the MV's onboard sounds is absurd and very reaching on your part to make this a longer post.

Originally posted by jahrome 12. So when it is all said and done, it really comes down to do you really need the bells and whitles this unit have? Do you mind the waiting time it takes for it to perform certain functions? And best..does it fit your budget. [/B]

Again, the bells and whistles aren't selling points on mpc's? No, they are features that SHOULD'VE been on Version 1.0 of mpc's (and actually worked).

Budget? I'd argue that a MV is better for the budget than either a 2kxl (even some of the 1700 used ones you sell) and the 4k. ANd you get more for it.

Waiting times are only at boot up and shut down. Workflow is nonstop once you get going and you're extremely overstation the start-up /shut-down times...

Everyone, even fanatic mpc users, admit that loading sounds from the HD, and processes for tweaking samples on the mpc take forever. I'd rather the wait be at the beginning and end of a session rather than throughout the session. On the MV, once you got everything loaded...it's there until you decide otherwise. And it'll be that way everytime you turn it on or load another project.

Originally posted by jahrome You may never need 128 tracks and its attempt to add audio tracks (which would only be useful to me if the tracks could be recorded and streamed to/from its hard drive). Cheaper alternatives exist for real-time time stretching such as Acid (which is software based). Nothing new or original in the MIDI sequencer or the layout of the industry standard 16 pressure sensitive grey pads..[/B]

NOTHING NEW OR ORIGINAL IN THE SEQUENCER???? How about them audio tracks...how about audio tracks in the pattern sequencer...how about having pattern tracks IN YOUR LINEAR sequencer using bnoth methods at the same time...NOT POSSIBLE ON THE MPC. You know nothing of which you speak. The audio tracks are there for more than recording...but you can create a whole song, vocals and all on 512 MB of RAM. 51 minutes of stereo sampling/102mono sampling...that much audio should be PLENTY for a 4-5 miute song. Gimmie a break...and the features on it are what makes the unit shine...in your opinion it is BUY the mpc that can do NONE of this and is MORE expensive...and then buy CHEAPER alternatives to do what the MV can and thempc can't ON TOP of buying the mpc...THAT is absurd. :D

Originally posted by jahrome But, despite its short comings, I have found it to be a worthy addition (not a replacement) to my gear addiction. Especially since Roland is dedicated (for the time being..where is the MC-909 these days)to promoting this item. If Roland supported the MC-909 sampling groove box better that they are now, I would opt for it instead. It can do many of the similar things plus you can install Roland's SRX chips in it. Only if they mad a MV-8000 with slots ofr the SRX expansion boards...that would be a killer.. [/B]

The MV easily replaces the mpc and all the "cheaper alternatives" you would have to get with the mpc to mae it as functional as the MV-8000.

The MV-8000 is a sampler/sequencer with a killer sampling/synthesis engine in it...it is NOT a groovebox. I do agree that the mc909 is a great machine that can do some things that BOTH mpc's and MV's can't...but the other way around is true as well. Why does the MV need a rompler in it? DO mpc's need rompler's in them to make them better? No.

Anyway, I am glad you think it is worthy for your set-up even though you bought it out of marketing more than neccessity (rather than getting the mc-909, which also will add nothing to what you already have like the MV doesn't add much to what you already have)...

Anyway, here we go again...but you need to learn the machine better before you mke so many inaccurate points about it. In the end, you did get it didn't you. ;)
 
Up front, I'm going to say I don't have an MPC, and I don't have an MV. I don't sell either one, and I don't care which one you'll buy.

I am however a gear junkie, so I try to keep up with all the new gear. Some of the assumptions made in the original post were not in line with the assumptions I've made looking at the same two choices, so I want to add my 2.
1) the hardrive on this machine can't be any more critical than it is on a PC. Most operations are executed from RAM, so once you are up and running you are OK. It is when you try to access the disk that things could screw up. I agree that precautions should be made, but whether you are writing to hard disk or Zip, or CDRW, you should always back up
2) I want to get away from my computer. I want one piece of gear I can take to the lake, and work. I want to keep all my project information on one piece of gear. I don't want to have to call up patches and sequences on one piece, then audio tracks and effects in another.
If deleting one sample is anything like it is on the Fantom-S, Jahrome's got a point. It could be alot easier.
3)More midi outs is alway cool. More audio outs is always cool, why stop at four?? But if I'm going to be using four midi outs, it would be safe to assume that I'm going to be using four other sound sources. If I am working with an MPC that only has four inputs total, then I am more than likely going to be using a mixer of some sort to feed the line inputs, so I don't have to hook and unhook cables all the time. It would make since to me then, that I don't need the extra inputs for the phono in, since I'm going to be using the mixer anyway. which nullifies point 5.
4)The only thing that I know of that syncs to SMPTE, is video and tape. I could care less. It would have made sense if either the 4000, or the 8000 would have incorporated wordclock, since all the other stuff in my digital studio sync's to wordclock.
5) see my point #3
6) I didn't notice the screen of the MV being any smaller than the one on the MPC. It would be nice if it flipped up. However in my studio, the screen of my AW4416 doesn't flip up. It's the same as the screen on the O2R, which also doesn't flip up, so I guess I'll have to get used to screens not flipping up.
7)Once again, I don't want a computer in my Studio. I have one, out of necessity, but this feature in the MV/Fantom, reduces my dependency on it. Now that I think of it, the darn screen on my Fantom doesn't flip up either.
8)How long has ADAT been out??? Why can't some people understand that it is a Standard used in every freekin studio in the country?? It shuoldn't even be a question. Shouldn't be an option.
9)In my opinion, both products suffer from to many menues. But I do like the word "execute" more than I like the phrase "do it"
10)That freekin MC-909 doesn't need anymore support. it is just as old as the Fantom-S. Has less real world functionallity, but it is still in production, and sells for 80% of it's original MSRP. used they are still going for over 1G. I wanted to get one, but the Fantom-S got into my price range a lot quicker. Hell the MV is talked about and updated everytime you turn around. But the price continues to come down.

11) the MPC has it's own effects, it's own filters, and it's own sounds. Sure the Roland can do more, but it doesn't sound like the MPC. I wouldn't pay the premium for that sound, but it's obvious alot of people will. I wouldn't sweat this MV vs MPC thing.
 
all that aside. I think it was a very good an informative post Ja

You Point-of-view as an MPC user
I threw in my POV, as a newbie.
 
The same 3 people that posted in my thread.

we could of just did this in there.

I dont see the need for an adjustable screen when you can simply connect a monitor.
 
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Part 1

Well, there is FLash Rom in the unit...This also isn't an mpc...these things rarely if ever crash.

I just posted what can happen if a user made a mistake and erased an important file on the hard drive. Also being that it needs a hard drive to work, it will crash one day. This is a fact about hard drives even in a PC. The MPC series doesn't need a hard drive in order for it to work. I keep here crashing of MPCs coming up. If you are using the current OS of any MPC, your unit should not be crashing. I have an OS that was created in 1996 that is rock solid!



We have three ways to simply delete samples...what are you talking about.
Please clairfy these functions. I read the manual and attempted this with no sucess. Only way was the optimize function.

And mixdown and all that takes place on the disk.

This is misleading in the Recording since of the word. The MV can save the project to the hard drive. But the saving time is much longer...3-4 x as long as an MPC. In all MY years on using MPCs, it has never taken anymore than a few seconds to save. In nver used a hard drive in the MPC 4000 because I like my files portable and have compiled years of files from other MPCs that work perfectly in the 4000.
...The mpc's you peddle only have 32 MB of RAM...you got to be kidding.
I wouldn't consider what I do peddling. I am the biggest, online, used MPC seller in the world :) Everyone knows what I deliver. I never made claims or tried to compair the MV to older MPCs. The MPC 4000 is the only unit that should be compaired to it...correction...the MV-8000 is the only unit that should be compaired to the MPC 4000.
And about the five minutes thing, I think you are exaggerating.
I am not but next time will time it...Never an issue with any MPC..except the time stretch on the MPC 2000XL is unusable for large sample files.

EVERYTHING on a mpc takes forever.
I can make the same claim as you made. You didn't sit down and learn the MPC. This is untrue. I wouldn't use an MPC if it took a long time to do anything. Its a sequencer first and formost. Sampling drums and phrases are next. Anything else is a bonus.

Yeah maybe, but you can upgrade to three midi outs plus R-Bus and still come out cheaper than a mpc.
With that upgrade, it is putting it close to the price of the MPC 4000. Again, I am not compairing the MV to a MPC 2000. And who cares about R-bus if you don't have other roland gear with that feature. An ADAT option should be standard or an option.

It does, it just master's it. And doesn't send it. Though it could in an update.
Ok than. I will wait until upgrade 4:)

(The horror, the horror...disconnecting a cable)
But what? Now you are just being lazy.
No. I just don't feel the need to plug and unplug. There should be an audio source select like in am MPC that was created over a decade ago.
And we HAVE a VGA option...not that it is needed...where is this on mpc's?????
Yes the MV needs this and everyone who owns one wants one. It free in some countries and hunreds of dollars in others...which it is pushing it close to the price on the MPC 4000. If you have an LCD, you probably have a computer also. The MPC 4000 can be connected to a PC via USB for editing using Akai Sys software.
 
I hate to admitt it but jahrome's arguments are compelling. Makes me think about getting an mpc 4000. but the bottom line is the price, you can get a used mv 8000 for around 1650, i'm not sure what an accurate price is for a used mpc 4000 off of ebay cause everthing there is overpriced.

The fact that you can use the usb on the 4000 for an external hard drive is also appealing
 
1. You use the 3000...so it is rock solid...but in comparision to the 4k...that thing still crashes on many people all the time... You keep hearing it because it happens.

2. Explaining the delete is longer to type out than to read in the manuals that came with V 1.2, 2.0, and 3.0 But basically you do this when you delete a patch, from your sample list, and yes, optomize. Easy.

3. Actually no, when you do mixdown, you mixdown to the disk.

Also, do have you maxed out the memory of a mpc4k and loaded it back up after a shutdown? Eternity, Timestretch? Eternity... And on your 3k...have a lot of samples (and long samples) to load up with only 32 MB of RAM? I didn't think so. The more data, the longer load up.

4. You peddle your product. :D I peddle my patches...Why is "peddle" a bad word to you?

5. I did sit down to learn the 2kxl and had it for two years along with TWO Z8 samplers...Tried the 4k but I thought it was a heap of dung...so I stuck with the 2kxl until the ROland MV-8000 came out and freed me from what, IN MY OPINION (key words), I'd call medeocrity. Z8's and the mpc's take longer than the MV. Period.

6. I don't think ADAT is the future...it is a hanger-on's option.

7. Who cares...

8. The point is that the mpc will at some point NEED the computer...the MV doesn't...but why be limiting? AKsys is convoluted at best and most people I know don't bother with it...Why? Because it is convoluted and they try to ignore their computers, which is wierd to me though I kinda understand it, when they are producing.

Anyway, looking forward to Part 2. And Jahrome, the MV WILL win you over. :D Considered yourself cursed. lol ;)
 
reading this stuff has been great.

the mv 8000 will prevail with me but i'm sure people will read this and choose the mpc 4000

hey trusty do i get some kinda of fp discount on them patches?:D
 
Part1B

...but in comparision to the 4k...that thing still crashes on many people all the time... You keep hearing it because it happens.
This maybe true if they didn't upgrade the OS. I don't sell MPC 4000s anymore because of its price but the few customers that bought them from me what me to get the new blue model MPC 4000s. Besides gossip on the internet, I have not heard of any MPC 4000 users that have any problems with the unit crashing. Again I have to add that I did have one of the first batch of MPC 4000s that were made. My unit crashed once which was quickly upgraded to prevent this problem from happening again.

And on your 3k...have a lot of samples (and long samples) to load up with only 32 MB of RAM? I didn't think so. The more data, the longer load up.
This is true but it depends on what you are saving it to. I save on zip disks. Even when the MPC 3000 is maxed out (yes it is only 32 MBs) it takes just seconds. I used the MPC 4000 to sequence MIDI instruments. I only use the sampler for drums and also sample phrases, which I try to limit. I am not P Diddy ya know :) So since I do no record actual vocals in the MPC 4000 (which it is not its selling point) saving for me was no problem. But I can comment on the time that it took to save a large project in the MV..entirely two long. I hope Roland would work on improving the MV in this regard.
I did sit down to learn the 2kxl and had it for two years ........Tried the 4k but I thought it was a heap of dung...
I can't dispute your opinions. But I found going from an an MPC 2000XL/3000 to the 4000 was a seamless transition. Like other MPC users, I was already use to doing things a certain way. So the added features were nice although I didn't use most of them. I already knew the MPCs power was its combination with other synths (MPC and a Triton..killer). So I decided to sell the MPC 4000 while I could still get top dollar...not to my surprise...I can still get top dollar today. One thing about the 4000, is that if you can get the LE version without the CDRW and the hard drive, the price of it is no more than the MV with its additional MIDI option. A MPC 4000 user can add any IDE CDRW or hard drive of his/her choice...thus you can buy your run-of- the-mill parts on you can go with the fastest IDE drive and Plextor CDRW drive. You have options with the 4000.

I don't think ADAT is the future...it is a hanger-on's option.
ADAT protocol isn't going anywhere. Digidesign, Steinberg, Yamaha, Akai, Mackie, RME..if you want, I will give you a full list of professional audio companies that support the ADAT format. Only Roland supports the R-Bus format.

The point is that the mpc will at some point NEED the computer...the MV doesn't...but why be limiting?
The MPC 4000 doesn't need a PC. You can do everything onboard the MPC (just like you say about the MV). But just like the VGA upgrade in the MV, the MPC 4000 has an OPTION to connect it to a PC if you want to. You can debate its funtionality of course..but I have never had any problems with it even using the older Akai Sys program.
 
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I wasn't aware that the 4k all of a sudden could mixdown, master, and burn an audio CD? ;) So, in the end, the mpc can't survive on its own without a computer or something...Not just like the MV can.

I can see that you don't really push the functionality of the gear that much. Keeping it empty while sequencing external gear isn't as stessful as playback of 16 or more keygroups inside the 4k each tapping into the modulation functions and other processes...regardless of the OS, the 4k doesn't always hold up ultilizing all the features of the Z-engine (which is why I prefered the mpc2kxl/Z8 combo over the 4k. And I won't knock the Z-Engine other than the crappy fx board and weak filters...It is a great, if not the best rack sampler. And also, most of the "updates" for the 4k have neem either bug fixes, and bug fixes for new features added to the machine. mvnation is full of former 4k users... :D

Recording vocals isn't a selling point of the MV either...but the MV sure makes it friendly and easy. Also, the MV provides you a place to put all the external sounds from modules being driven by the sequencer...and give you plenty of flexabile options to do with that recorded audio in a sequence...be it audio phrases, loops, chopped patches, direct recording, etc...what does the mpc 4k have for this to compete?

The Roland can be customized as well. There are people running 120 gig hard drives and a gig of RAM in it (not covered by the warranty of course).

Everything has its time and Alesis themselves have admitted as much...they are gearing up for the "next" thing. Like R-Bus. mLan, and other protocals have tried to varying degrees of success. I think R Bus is great and great for those who use it...same can be said for mLan and whatnot. Options...I have no need for ADAT litepipe and all that. I am glad to have the different, more forward-thinking options.
 
Everything has its time and Alesis themselves have admitted as much...they are gearing up for the "next" thing. Like R-Bus. mLan, and other protocals have tried to varying degrees of success.
R-bus will never take off. I got $20 on it...mark my word....Alesis admitted as much about ADAT..Well you said that you are not the most technical guy so I have to enlighted you (maybe)...I am not talking about ADAT as in hardware recorders that look light highend VCRs..I am talking about ADAT optical digital protocol. Every new AD/DA converter made by top comanies like Digidesign, Apogee, and even Yamaha (although they are pushing their mLan technology for several years now) have newly released products that have ADAT digital outs that have the ability to send 8 tracks on a very thin optical cord. Korg Triton Studio, Kurzweil (maybe the best synths workstation on the planet)and even the MPC 4000 has ADAT options. It is just your opinion that this technology is going away. All companies push their own formats but they make sure that ADAT options are there as well. As far as Roland...you have to get an R-bus conversion box that has...guess what...ADAT ;)

Also, the MV provides you a place to put all the external sounds from modules being driven by the sequencer...

So now you are connecting your sound module outputs into the inputs of the MV. Nice gimmick but so...It is just sampling (installed in RAM unlike Triton Studios, the ASR-10, and also DAWs which save audio to hard drives/disks)and placing it on one of eight audio tracks. The MPC 4000 (which was released maybe 2 years before the MV) has its own way to handle this if you choose (which I don't). It isn't like the MVs...no..But you can play a sequence and record(sample) the audio inputs/as well as the outputs of the 4000. It will than save this to a track of your choosing. This is the MPCs way of doing things...like it or not. I can still add effects,eq, and filters. I can go in and edit portions of the sample. Chopp it if I like. Silence certain parts. So just because it doesn't do things exactly like the MV...come on now. That is not an argument. You say that MVnation is filled with ex-MPC4000 users...I beg to differ. This is not a fact that you can prove. It is just gossip. I can go on any site to say what I want but that doesn't make it true. Also, hit making producers don't just jump at anything that comes out. They are usually done buying gear and use what they have always have. Everyone here has most likely heard about Scratch Magazine by now. MV isn't mention much..not because it isn't a good tool...it is because producers are happy with what they have. That is the only reason why I sold my 4000..which I will be getting another...you already know why :)


I got to use the quote I borrowed...just because a tool cannot do everything that doesn't mean it is useless or over priced.

I hope know one gets offended but I am sure someone will...most hit making producers do notcomplete their music in all-in-one boxes. Fact...If they did, studios would be out of business. Everybody would just go get a VS recorder or something. There wouldn't be studios full of rack mounted equipment. There wouldn't be a need to buy VSTi plugins from different companies..you wouldnt't see more than one keyboard...Name a hit record..I can't say for sure what was used unless the artist disclosed this in an interview...but I can almost for certain say that it wasn't done in an all-in-one box..like the MV. This may or may not change. But my bets are that it will never change.... Now for song writers that want to get ideas down (not as quickly as you are lead to believe)..yeah, the MV is a great buy..the MC909 is also a great tool for song writing. For the home producer..the MV is appealing in its all-in-one shell...I cannot dispute that. But if you think Jermaine Dupri only used an MV in his studio (not talking about on the road)you are mistaken so don't believe the hype. Take a look at Pro Tools and Nuendo forums to see what many producers/engineers are doing and using.

what does the mpc 4k have for this to compete?

Remember Akai MPCs have been around since 1988. Many challengers and pretenders tried to take the throne...many offered more features, functions, and memory. But the MPC didn't chase trends..its set them. And has defeated them all. That is why they are still around and these forums will continue to go on talking about them.

The MV is worthy though....But I for one don't need it for many of its functions. I just want to sample sound drum sounds and maybe a phrase loop. MIDI it up with my modules..record it into my DAW..to mix..master..and burn to CD or DVD. Again, the MPC 4000 was not designed to be a stand alone studio. It was designed to be the center of your studio to build around. If you ahven't noticed..hardware samplers have actually dies over the years...with the exception of MPCs. More and more producers have started to use software samplers. E-mu has given up on hardware and they were one of the best at it. Roland had given up on standalone hardware samplers however their new weapons are trying to bring it back.

what does the mpc 4k have for this to compete?
You know that champ doesn't have to go looking for challengers..not talking specifically on the MPC 4000 but the MPC line in general. The 4000 does burn CDs. Not in the way the MV does.of course not. It is new. Akai didn't set out to make the MPC 4000 this way and my guess is since it wasn't designed with some of the MV features in mind...there probably is a hardware limitation for major improvments...just like I don't think there will be a graphic waveform editor on the MPC 3000.
There are people running 120 gig hard drives and a gig of RAM in it (not covered by the warranty of course).
If the MV had plenty of memory as you said, upgrading to a gig (that isn't suported)would never be a thought..I think. 120 gig drive...I think maybe to replace the slow drives that are pre-installed. C'mon now...if it took minutes to load and save..just think about a 1 gig project that needed to be saved...I could probably work out at the gym and come home and it still will be saving.

Again, the MV is attractive to me but not because of any of the features that have been listed. Only because its works like an MPC that I am familiar with and there is a potential (no matter how small) that a future customer may want one.

Also about bugs..Akai announces and fixes all the bugs in the MPC 4000 and displays this info on their websites. Roland on the other hand keeps bug fixes secret and only announces and publish improvements....
 
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mano 1 said:
Long time coding this engine from scratch ;) gotta use it!!

:D


mano...do you do any other coden' besides web based ..example: c++ or c sharp ..
 
Jahrome.............again and again, you mention things that the MV can do, and the MPC can't do. One of your reasons, is that the MPC is going to be used in the studio, or with a Triton, or both. You saY the MV is an all in one box, and the MPC isn't, wasn't meant to be, and doesn't need to be.
So my question to you, if the 4000 has been out for so long, and the only difference made between now, and the first ones made is the OS, and the Color, why is the MPC still more expensive than the MV??
Sure the MPC has two sets of inputs, but the MV has a more faders, and more memory.
How much of the MPC price, do you think is hype??

I don't have a problem with hype. If people want to buy a Dre signature series MPC, fine. But if I was a new to the game, and serious about making music, I'd get the MV. It looks like Roland did what Akai should have done years ago. And they give it to you at the price of an MPC2000, which can't compete.
 
The only advantage i see that the mpc 4000 has is the fact that it can connect external hardrives.
 
When the MPC 4000 came out, there as nothing quite like it. Roland decided to make a competitive model and inlcude features that the felt dance/remix producers would like to have.

Akai MPC 4000 is a fully professionally line and not necessarily intend to be owned by everyone with a home studio..They have a steady stream of sales to highend studio and mega producers all the same. As long as they are moving units world wide at that price..business wise it makes no sense to come down in price to mae a few people happy. This is obvious. The price of the MPC 4000 has actually went up. I don't work for Akai but these are just my hunches and opinions.

Roland on the other had (as Trusty stated..don't know if it is true or untrue) is a bigger company and can afford to lower the price on their flag ship unit. If this is the case, it reminds me of Playstation 2 and the X-Box. Play Station has been the standard..along comes X-Box produced my giant Microsoft. The prices of the X-box are the same or slighly cheaper than the Play Station..has boasted better graphics and sounds, a hard drive, and a faster processor. Its technology is also newer than the Play Station with standard internt lan port. Microsoft can afford to lose money on the X-box...Their goal is to put a dent in Sony's pockets and try to take over the video game industry.

Which brings us back to Akai and Roland. Roland is a bigger company and have a bigger product line....but can you trust them. Yeah, they are supported the MV now but wait until 2 years later. Roland is always putting out newer products and the older equipment loses value quickly..this is a fact. How many groove boxes, VS studios, XV sound modules, and Fantom keyboard spin-offs have there been in the past several years. The VP9000 whose, technology is in the MV, use to cost about $2500 just a few years ago. You shouldn't pay more than $500 today. In 1992, the MPC 3000 was priced at $3000. There are companies that claim to have practically new models...they cost between $2500-$3200. Is it hype...anybody's guess. MPC 2000s and 2000XLs still get top dollar.

Like I said earlier, the MV has found a place in my studio but not for what individuals are raving about. You may need these features...I find them useless for me. What ever is quoted..I find that no hardware sequencer is better than an MPC...period..Just as good..maybe and maybe not.

I put up this post as a long time MPC user that reviewed the MV. Which, I will play around with this weekend and post my findings....

I am telling everyone here..forget all the hype and demo the units yourself. You wmay regret it if you don't by making the wrong choice...eitherway. Everyone doesn't have money to throw away like myself and I live on a modest income..with a wife and two big azz kids.

I also have to add that there is a big difference among the different models of MPCs. Only the 4000 is a full blown 24 bit sampler with 4 buss effects processor which is standard. It has an hard drive and CDRW drive which no other MPCs have. The sequencer tracks have been expanded. The memory has been mega upgraded---from 32 Mb to 512MB just like the MV. The sequencer section has a higher resolution (more notes can be recorder per quarter note..jus technical stuff)..it also has double the banks..banks that can hold samples. Still comparing MPC 4000 with the other MPCs. You can find more Akai sample CD Roms more than any other..and these sounds load up into the MPC 4000 flawlessly....I as many think of quality when it comes to MPCs. You can't go wrong with a tried and trusted line.

I am not bashing anyone's choice...but only time will tell whci units prevail or if will see both dominating the market.....For right now..today... everyone know which units win... Which may or may not be important to anyone....
 
The only advantage i see that the mpc 4000 has is the fact that it can connect external hardrives.

If that is only what you see..I can't argue with that. Hands on review is the only way to go...I did it. Again, this is just what an MPC user would face should he crossgrade to an MV....If I started from scratch...the MV will still be a late first round draft pick. An MPC(take your pick) and Triton will be my starting QB and RB. The MV may be my special utility guy like Randle El of the Steelers. It would run back kicks and punts, line up as a receiver or running back, and also take a few snaps. But I will have to go with the core that brought me this far...until they break down or no longer made..or when somethin comes along that is clearly better...The MPC killed the SP12...
 
You talk aboutall the things the mv can do like its a bad thing. Think of it like Jordan, it can shoot, dribble play defence and still dunk on your asss whenever its ready. Aint nothin wrong with that

I'm the kinda guy that only likes to use a few pices of gear. The more one piece can do the better. If the mv aint the right tool i'll just sell it and gett the mpc 4000:D

As long as its better than the mpc 1000 it will be fine with me because that did me well.

I could never bring myself to buy an mpc 2000xl anymore knowing that i can get an mv 8000 for like 2g's more.


Trusty you still didn't give me an answer about that discount.:D
 
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