MPC 5000 and multisampled instrument patches

jahrome

jahrome

Diamond Member
I created this thread to showcase what you can do with an MPC 5K. This can also be done using any MPC.

While the 5K doesn't currently support keygroup type sample programs, you can certainly create sample program/instrument/patches using multi-samples you purchased, downloaded, or sampled yourself. In the following exampled, I sampled 16 piano notes into the MPC 5000. I edited them and programmed them to play chromatically in a sample program using the MPs sample tuning function. I added some reverb using 1 of the 4 multi-effect slots that is standard on the 5K. Then I created an original composition on the MP playing the piano patch. I will make this patch available for any MPC user that wants it....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgJiIIiKp3g
 
VexaDJ said:
Showcasing a workaround.

Pure. Freaking. Gold.
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Although keygroup type sample programming is common in today's samplers, it was originally a work around. When samplers first came out, they gave you as little as 1 MB (or even less) and as much as 16 MB. Sample looping and keymap programming were created to save sample memory since it was so limited. The MP has an autochromatic assign function which takes a single sample and map it across a range of keys by using sample tuning. This is very similar to what older samplers had to do in order to save memory.

Today, many still hang onto this way of programming. But when you look at the most powerful software samplers, every key of an instrument is sampled to create a patch. This gives a more authentic sounding patch (the reason why there are Giga Pianos on the market). Using keygroup programming and sampling just a few notes, doesn't give you the same authentic sound. The more notes you sample, the better quality of the patch.
 
OOOhh I didn't know any of that. What's a MB? You're such a good teacher. Thankyou for sharing your incredible wisdom.
 
Sorry dude , that is exactly why you don't trust a phrase sampler to do multi-sampler's job.

That joint sounded like a late 80's Casiotone.
 
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What you are hearing is a digitally multi-sampled Roland Fantom piano patch that actually sounds better than the original. :)

For my next uploads, I will put up both an original Roland patch and the multi-sampled MP5K to showcase what it can do. Stay tuned.
 
jahrome said:
What you are hearing is a digitally multi-sampled Roland Fantom piano patch that actually sounds better than the original. :)

For my next uploads, I will put up both an original Roland patch and the multi-sampled MP5K to showcase what it can do. Stay tuned.
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Say what you want but it still sounds like free ringtone.
 
If is sounds like a ring tone, then you should certainly not buy the Fantom series keyboards or the MV which come full of these Roland sounds....
 
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FFS sample something ELSE then so your super-excellent 5K isn't sullied by inferior sounds from an inferior machine. This thread is about "showcasing what the 5000 can do", so leave the other machines out of it. You can't admonish Rolnad for Slakai's problems. Oh, hang on, you can, can't you.
 
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VexaDJ said:
FFS sample something ELSE then so your super-excellent 5K isn't sullied by inferior sounds from an inferior machine. This thread is about "showcasing what the 5000 can do", so leave the other machines out of it. You can't admonish Rolnad for Slakai's problems. Oh, hang on, you can, can't you.
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I did call Roland's machines inferior..that was the other dudes. You do know that when you sample, you need a sampling source? I use Roland gear. If you want to lend me your Yamaha or Korg keyboards so I can sample them...I will do that test. Until then, I will sample sounds from my Roland modules. I am sorry if Roland presets sound like ring tones to you......
 
What about one of the millions of free VST instruments out there? Try sampling one of those.

Even better, sample the internal synth on the 5000. Something with character and perhaps a bit of movement in the sound. Going fo a piano-type sound is poor thinking, for a couple of reasons.

1: A piano needs 'proper' velocity layers to sound correct.
2: without aftertouch, a piano sample will always sound 'sampled'.

Basically, without good articulation, your piano sample is going to sound lifeless and static. Not what you want at all.

Now, that doesn't mean that your idea isn't a good one - people have been using phrase samplers to do this task for years. The thing is, you need to use sounds that are gonna benfit from this process rather than be hindered by it.

Detuned sawtooth sounds, sub-bass sounds, strong squares etc. work really well as 'phrase sampler multisamples' (oxymoron of the day peeps). Something that will sound nice and rhythmic when you play it in a 'gated' style.

Each sample should be at least a full second long, with full sustain, so you can play a little or a lot of the sample when you hit those pads.

Give it a try.
 
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Then you have to ask, what point is there to multisample a synth into a unit that already has a synth in it? Lets face it, the 5000 isnt very well suited for multisampling. The polyphony alone kills it when we talk about using more than a few instruments at a time. My original discontent with the MPC 4K sampler was the polyphony and this has not changed on the 5K. That piano in the video sounded terrible btw. No disrespect just real spit.
 
Making 'monosynth' patches (using mute groups) is still worth doing, for example if you want to use a VSTi away from a computer, have to worry about polyphony and have a specific purpose in mind (such as live performance).

Using a phrase sampler as a multisampler is kind of like towing a trailer with a motorbike - but if that's your only option that's what you do.

If you can afford a 5000 you can prolly afford a proper sampler too, though...
 
1: A piano needs 'proper' velocity layers to sound correct.
2: without aftertouch, a piano sample will always sound 'sampled'.
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The absence of either will only a dead expressionless sound and that is the case here. The claim that the YT demo sounds better than any decent piano patch is complete rubbish.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMjhXCkpC0Y

Hey Jahbronie, Why doesn't this demo sound like garbage if your resampled sounds better than the original. ace it, sounds with both pitched width and expression depth are impossible on the 5000.
It is and will always be a just $2600 Phrase sampler.


That piano in the video sounded terrible btw. No disrespect just real spit.
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I don't think you'll find many that don't agree with you on that.
 
I thought of something and would like to ask.

A "true sampler" like the 4000 and a "phrase" sampler like the 5000, what really is the difference? Aren't the multisamples in the 4000 and other samplers like it, made with also samples/phrases?

Myself, I never multisampled anything, but I get the feeling that with something like the 5000, you should be able to do this as well, no?
 
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Visit www.myspace.com/fullerproductions and listen to Time Warp. The piano patch playing is a velocity layered multisampled instrument. Then listen to my You Tube Video with the MPC 5K playing a multi-sampled instrument with no velocity layers.
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The MPC 5000 (just like other MPCs) does have after touch as well as velocity layers (velocity layers were not used in the demo). Like all similar hardware samplers, you only get 4 velocity layers. These insturments will never sound like a multisampled giga piano nor were they created to do such a thing. This is where software samplers fill the void. In the You Tube video, the 5K demo sounds exactly like the Fantom patch when the keyboard's keys are set to play a Velocity of 127.

Phrase sampler vs keymap sampler. A keymap type sampler allows you to assign a sample to a group of keys. It will tune the sample up or down automatically. A phrase sampler like the 5K allows you to assign a sample to one or multiple keys. You then have to manually tune each sample up or down. There are no other advantages or disadvantages when it comes to the quality of sound. The only advantage/disadvantage is how fast you can create a multi-sampled patch using both types of samplers. Assigning samples to a group of keys is faster than assigning it to just a single key. The end result is exactly the same.
 
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jahrome said:
The end result is exactly the same.
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No, it's not. At all. Not even Close. Not in the ballpark. Not even the same sport.

If you actually take notice of what people are saying to you instead of just getting back on your high horse, you'll notice that there are aspects of multisampling that are worth doing with your 5000.

Creating a piano patch just isn't one of them ;)
 
The 5000 was not designed to do anything more the drums and phrases that's why you only have 196MB max ram and not 512 or 1GB. In fact expressive tools such as portamento are missing from the 5000 entirely. You can try to dismiss the importance of keygroups but you still can't use any top notch libraries for the S series and other from groups like Spectrasonics, Ilio, and Miroslav - or any of the industry standard CDs.

As always when your 5000 falls flat you look to other gear lean on. The bout for the 5000 was over long ago. You just don't know it because the ceiling lights have blinded you.


*********** My posted scenario from the other forum on the same subject still applies.*********


Customer: Hey I need a digital camera that shoots video at maybe 30fps .

Salesman: This unit is great . It's the new flagship model.

 Customer: Looks cool but it's just for stills. It says so right there on feature card. There's no video mode.

Salesman: Not having a real video mode won't stop you. You can still shoot great video with it. You just have to shoot it frame by frame.

 Customer: You mean like clay-mation frame by frame?

Salesman: Let's not argue labels. In the end good video is good video right?

 Customer: Why would i want to go through that when there are better options for way less money?

Salesman: Listen , it's not an issue, really. All you have to do is capture 30 still photos in a second, process and crop them all to make sure they look as you want, lay them out in a sequenced row in a program like flash or fireworks, and render the finished video. That's all you have to do for a full second's worth of video.
Trust me- it really looks great!

 Customer: How can something that cost that much not have a real video mode? Even the cheaper cameras from the same company have it.


Salesman: That's true but I'm confident that it'll be added in the next firmware update.

 Customer: What if there's no update?

Salesman: C'mon man look at the quality of those stills.
 
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