New Midi Instrument Design & Development

[patrickfeeney]

Hi everyone, Im designing a midi controller for my thesis in DIT Product Design. Is the the initial stages and I am looking for some feed back. So... What do ye think, would anyone buy one? - how much would you pay? - What would you add to/take from it Feedback Needed!!

 

[bandcoach]

trying to impose new paradigms on the buying public are generally doomed to failure - take Yamaha's Omnichord, for example, an electronic zither
- your lack of a traditional keyboard layout only creates confusion
-- although it is apparent that you are going for a 2 octave scale range, you will need 15 keys to achieve this
-- it also demonstrates that you do not understand that a melody can have notes from outside of the scale
-- you also demonstrate your lack of understanding of melodic ideas
--- most melodies have the tonic in the center of the range not the bottom or the top of the range of notes available
---- i.e. melodies can start on the 5th of the scale below the tonic and proceed to cover a two octave range from there
- your chord idea is novel in the manner it is presented
-- however leaving them to be only the scale based triads is limiting
--- even with modifier buttons to add colour
---- each of the 10 buttons would have to provide a specific colouration and be scale aware as well
-- in the major scale there is no dim7 chord
-- there are three forms of minor scale with different chord types available based on the tones in play
-- there are the additional 4 modes of the major scale, as well as the other 12 modes of the harmonic and melodic minors,

do you have a musician/composer on your advisory committee? if not get one, if so, talk to them more and iron out what you are missing in your base knowledge and understandings

 

[patrickfeeney]

trying to impose new paradigms on the buying public are generally doomed to failure - take Yamaha's Omnichord, for example, an electronic zither
- your lack of a traditional keyboard layout only creates confusion
-- although it is apparent that you are going for a 2 octave scale range, you will need 15 keys to achieve this
-- it also demonstrates that you do not understand that a melody can have notes from outside of the scale
-- you also demonstrate your lack of understanding of melodic ideas
--- most melodies have the tonic in the center of the range not the bottom or the top of the range of notes available
---- i.e. melodies can start on the 5th of the scale below the tonic and proceed to cover a two octave range from there
- your chord idea is novel in the manner it is presented
-- however leaving them to be only the scale based triads is limiting
--- even with modifier buttons to add colour
---- each of the 10 buttons would have to provide a specific colouration and be scale aware as well
-- in the major scale there is no dim7 chord
-- there are three forms of minor scale with different chord types available based on the tones in play
-- there are the additional 4 modes of the major scale, as well as the other 12 modes of the harmonic and melodic minors,

do you have a musician/composer on your advisory committee? if not get one, if so, talk to them more and iron out what you are missing in your base knowledge and understandings

Hi bandcoach, Thanks for your reply..

That is a very good point about the two octaves. I was allowing exactly two major octaves with 14 keys but most key boards have an extra key as a start to the 3rd octave - well spotted.

I dont intend this to replace the conventional keyboard, just as a side kick to get ideas flowing. My research so far has brought me away from the conventional keyboard layout as one of the main bottlenecks for budding producers is lack of music theory knowledge ie. chromatic keyboard is daunting and frustrating for a beginner trying to extract a simple melody from their head. Given that the learning of chords, scales and modes take up a lot of time I tried to cut it down to the bones -
am i right in saying: you think I have limited the musician too much?

My Idea with the chord buttons is exactly that, I havent decided which variations to add - an example is 6th, 7th, 9th, sus2, sus4, double octave etc.
Do you have any suggestions for the variation buttons?

Im not entirely sure what you mean by there is no dim7th chord in the major scale.... because there is - Isnt there?
About all the modes - i intend to include all modes, scales (even relative/dominant etc.) - Do you think a conventional keyboard layout option is needed?
Im consulting two pro producers ongoing and I am also a musician & do understand music theory, composition etc.

 

[bandcoach]

Hi bandcoach, Thanks for your reply..

That is a very good point about the two octaves. I was allowing exactly two major octaves with 14 keys but most key boards have an extra key as a start to the 3rd octave - well spotted.

the double octave is the 15th note - 14 notes is only the octave plus the 7th

I dont intend this to replace the conventional keyboard, just as a side kick to get ideas flowing. My research so far has brought me away from the conventional keyboard layout as one of the main bottlenecks for budding producers is lack of music theory knowledge ie. chromatic keyboard is daunting and frustrating for a beginner trying to extract a simple melody from their head.

What evidence in the scientific literature are you using to support this position?

What human factors research has been done in the past and what, if any, do you propose to do?

Which psychological studies, including ethnographic studies of the target audience are the basis for your beliefs here?

And when they are looking for a note that is not available because of the keyboard structure? what then?

How do they include a blues inflection to a major melody (i.e. b3-3, b5-5, b7-7, etc)?

Given that the learning of chords, scales and modes take up a lot of time I tried to cut it down to the bones -
am i right in saying: you think I have limited the musician too much?

by removing the chromatic aspect of music, you are removing opportunities to create compelling and interesting music

some of the fundamental chord progressions we hear in the broad class of styles we call pop utilise the concept of non-scale-tone based chords

see the following for a collection of progressions that are found in the major, the minor or modally

Band Coach ~ Common Chord Progressions: Major
Band Coach ~ Common Chord Progressions: Minor

what you should be able to take away from these is that there is a greater range of possibilities than your current design limitations would allow for

My Idea with the chord buttons is exactly that, I havent decided which variations to add - an example is 6th, 7th, 9th, sus2, sus4, double octave etc.
Do you have any suggestions for the variation buttons?

based on your scale choices not all of them will yield a homogeneous chord set: the blues scale by definition is applied to either the major or the minor in equal measure. Scales such as the asian scale bring a different underlying chord scale, especially as some scales are missing notes and therefore we must interpolate possible additional notes to make a 7 tone scale for the building of chords (i.e.we choose which notes will be used to flesh out the available notes to construct the chords from

as for chord variations, being able to substitute parallel major and minor would be good (allows for secondary dominants when moving from min to maj), as would elisive substitutions and tritone substitutions. Then sus4, 6, 6/9, maj 9, dom 9, add 9 (preferred to sus2 which is not a suspension the true meaning of the term),

Im not entirely sure what you mean by there is no dim7th chord in the major scale.... because there is - Isnt there?

In the major the chords of the 7th based on scale tone construction alone are derived as follows

Major 7th - 1-3-5-7, 4-6-1-3 ~ C-E-G-B, F-A-C-E
Dom 7th - 5-7-2-4 (1-3-5-b7) ~ G-B-D-F
Minor 7th - 2-4-6-1, 3-5-7-2, 6-1-3-5 (1-b3-5-b7) ~ D-F-A-C, E-G-B-D, A-C-E-G
minor7b5 - 7-2-4-6 (1-b3-b5-b7) ~ B-D-F-A

the diminished 7 is spelt 1-b3-b5-bb7 and is present in the harmonic and melodic variants of the minor scale but not in any of the modes of the major scale (they will all be similar to the above major scale derivations)

harmonic minor 7th chord derivations
Minor-major 7th - 1-b3-5-7 ~ A-C-E-G#
minor7b5 - 2-4-b6-1 ~ B-D-F-A
7#5 - b3-5-7-2 ~ C-E-G#-B
Minor 7th - 4-b6-1-b3 ~ D-F-A-C
Dom 7th - 5-7-2-4 ~ E-G#-B-D
Major 7th - b6-1-b3-5 ~ F-A-C-E
dim 7th -7-2-4-b6 ~ G#-B-D-F

melodic minor 7th chord derivations
Minor-major 7th - 1-b3-5-7 ~ A-C-E-G#
Minor 7th - 2-4-6-1 ~ B-D-F#-A
7#5 - b3-5-7-2 ~ C-E-G#-B
Dom 7th - 4-6-1-b3, 5-7-2-4 ~ D-F#-A-C, E-G#-B-D
minor7b5 - 6-1-b3-5, 7-2-4-6 ~ F#-A-C-E, G#-B-D-F#

About all the modes - i intend to include all modes, scales (even relative/dominant etc.) - Do you think a conventional keyboard layout option is needed?
Im consulting two pro producers ongoing and I am also a musician & do understand music theory, composition etc.

who do you have on your thesis advisory panel though?